Welcome everyone to another edition of my China Tech Law Newsletter. If you haven't caught it before, I host a podcast over the years which we've just rebranded as the Asia Business Podcast. Among many amazing guests, two very experienced General Counsels have been come on the show, Craig Katerberg, the GC of Budweiser Brewing Co, APAC and Di Yao Head of Legal at Google Shanghai. This post is sharing to a broader audience some of the key, timeless wisdom Craig shared when I interviewed him and Di Yao shared when my good friend Boon Kim Fam interviewed him earlier about being a GC in Asia.

On Being a Commercially Savvy Partner

Craig Katerberg:

“Building up trust takes time and it takes consistency and dependability. And especially in the commercial side there's often a wariness about lawyers and the legal department because you've heard of so many things being shot down.

And I think that's overblown in a lot of ways, especially for in-house lawyers because there are a lot of tools that you, as a lawyer can bring to show that you're meeting the same objectives. And you want to get there, but in a slightly different way that keeps it frankly legal and on the right side of the line.

So showing and demonstrating that you care about the commercial objective, knowing the commercial objective, and then building up that trust over time, I think are the things that you practically can do.

Di Yao:

“I think the largest value add for me, is being a goalkeeper. But the goalkeeper means not just to shut down everything.

So a goalkeeper means don't over-lawyer it and get things done. In-house counsel usually is okay to take a certain degree of risk together with the business team. For example, when dealing with cutting edge technology issues where there are not necessarily clear rules yet.

So being the goalkeeper to work with the engineers. To change the world with engineers together. I think that is the largest value add I see. And in-house counsel with a technology company can be very resourceful and also offer a very different perspective. As in-house counsel, we have been doing a lot of deals and have the experience.

So we can advise founders, engineers, the business team, on what's going on, and what's the next move. And also we offer very different perspectives than engineers. Engineers have their own views of the world. Somebody may disagree, but lawyers actually help them in building up those views for the real world.”

On the Advantages of Being an Introvert

Craig:

There's a lot of great attributes coming from introverted people and lawyers in general about that structure and about actively listening and caring. Those are things that I think extroverted people have more of a tendency to gloss over and not necessarily listen as proactively, because more extroverted people (a generalization again) are usually looking for that space to say something.

Introverts don't really want to say something. They want the other person to keep talking and say something. But they’re listening and trying to find those next questions or that next path. So I think there's a lot to that, knowing their stakeholder and then trying to see the world through their view and also, advocate for what matters for them.

Because of course you're having a conversation. And so you might want something out of it? But maybe it's just that you want to get to know the person better. Maybe you find their aspirations. Maybe it's that there's some specific policy agenda that they have coming in with. Whatever it is, you have to know of course what is involved from your side, but also what's involved from their side and that you're being a good partner in those situations too, because one-sided relationships almost never work in the long run.

On Being Practical About Legal Rights

Di Yao:

I think sometimes you need to have an IP strategy beforehand. And also, I think court is only one option. Sometimes a lot of Western clients, they came to us and say, hey, I want to sue this guy. He’s out there faking my pencils, or something like that. Can I do that? I say, yes, you can do that. But, for you it would take a lot of attorney fees, you fight that for 12 months, you have a winning case.

And when you enforce that judgement, you find that there's nobody there and, maybe you can enforce against that guy, but somebody will pop up again tomorrow, right? Court is only one option. You need to take a more holistic approach, like working closely with partners and governments, working very closely with Alibaba, with Pinduoduo, with WeChat, and working closely with the government to do criminal law liability cases, that kind of approach.

The most important thing I always advise my clients is ask them not to stop creating, but create more. Sometimes in China, I think the problem is not about your IP being stolen by Chinese competitors. It's about Chinese competitors that came up with more than you created.

So you cannot stop that. You must keep innovating. That gives you the IP edge. Otherwise, if you're still sitting on something you created 20 years ago, in Europe, in the United States, that doesn't help you here in China.

*This blog may be considered attorney advertising. It is for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice.